Skills

Shit I think is straghtforward.

Racial Flaw Empathy 3 Ranks. Val is a listener.

Initiative 2. Never HAD to go fast.

MBAB (calling this mental bab for the character but its magic bab ) 2

Mental Armor dRanks for focus damage.  1

Toughness +ranks to vitality. 1

Shit I need DM input to move forward

Telepathy - send and receive cognition via will.  Im thinking this may need to be a base skill depending on how the world treats various aspects of the psionic arts. 

Sustain Self - Trading off food/water needs with meditation. Flavor-wise  I see it as the ability to psychically meet the bodies needs through a period of meditation. What that ratio is I wanted to leave to the DM and decide to move forward from there.

Know Thyself - Crucial for a race who are so open telepathically.  Re-roll a failed sanity check = ranks per day but only for issues that would make them do things that might offend  their sensibilities. 

I think this might be OP in a sense when compared against the first thing that comes to mind for say re-rolling 1s for any SkillName_Safety.

Uncommented stuff is good to go

Initiative 2. Never HAD to go fast.
- not actually straightforward?  the only standardized passive initiative bumps are "Reflexive Speed (+Init capAgi)" - which could be reflavored appropriately to a different attribute cap - or the often ignored Half Ranks tree which always stacks (AndInit gives +Init at half-ranks rounded down)

MBAB (calling this mental bab for the character but its magic bab ) 2
- i'm fine with a Psionic BAB, which might be or approximate your goal.  Too vague as described however.

Telepathy - send and receive cognition via will.  Im thinking this may need to be a base skill depending on how the world treats various aspects of the psionic arts.
- maybe as you expand but nothing triggering that so far. 

Sustain Self - Trading off food/water needs with meditation. Flavor-wise  I see it as the ability to psychically meet the bodies needs through a period of meditation. What that ratio is I wanted to leave to the DM and decide to move forward from there.
- how hardcore we're going with basic survival did not make the discussion last week, but is on the docket for this wed.  i'm not going to decide a specific ratio without that discussion, but i would expect a relatively favorable interpretation (esp with Luketic's guy also taking something similar)

Know Thyself - Crucial for a race who are so open telepathically.  Re-roll a failed sanity check = ranks per day but only for issues that would make them do things that might offend  their sensibilities. 
- conceptually this is fine.  how its treated mechanically may need to be played with when you are being directly attacked (i.e. you aren't the one rolling anything) if we are leaning towards the "offending sensibilities" as the triggering criteria.  or were you picturing this as more limited only for self-sanity checks (times of "roll under your own sanity")?  if so then the "offend sensibilities" clause could be dropped in favor of that being the more limited application criteria.

I think this might be OP in a sense when compared against the first thing that comes to mind for say re-rolling 1s for any SkillName_Safety.
- i cannot contextually make sense of this sentence, which raises the possibility i dont grasp your goal with the Know Thyself fully?

@jaquin

Initiative: My b didn't recall having to justify ranks in a skill that added to initiative. AFAIU any skills adding to initiative are capped by the  perception + intuition of the character.   

MBAB » PBAB: Agree with it being potentially too vague.   My intent was it have it act as an equivalent MBAB for when my character needs to roll to hit with his psionic abilities  which I think looks like guile + skill + PBAB. 

Sustain Self: I'm still interested in this as a skill pending conversation as you have identified.

Know Thyself:I've got no compunctions with the considerations you've introduced. Before addressing your points I will say that my thinking was that it would be OP to have a  "re-roll that cause I didn't like it" when we already have a "skillName_safety"  that works like "I rolled one of the twenty values possible and I don't like it and want to re-roll it" as an accepted paradigm.  If I understand what you mean by them I had only considered this skill within the context of "self-sanity checks" and would ask what kinds of situations you're regarding so I can weigh in more effectively as I may want to cover the difference with additional skills.

Posted by: @jaquin

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AndInit gives +Init at half-ranks rounded down

RE: init - this is the operative phrase yeah?

If I understand what you mean by them I had only considered this skill within the context of "self-sanity checks" and would ask what kinds of situations you're regarding so I can weigh in more effectively as I may want to cover the difference with additional skills.
- like charm/domination was the trigger based on the phrase "would make them do things that might offend  their sensibilities. "

Posted by: @danargo

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Posted by: @jaquin

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AndInit gives +Init at half-ranks rounded down

RE: init - this is the operative phrase yeah?

Operative phrase?  No.  It's one of the established basic ways to create passive stacking bonuses.  See the first section "some system basics" at this link if the remainder of this post doesn't clarify it on its own:
https://j8gaming.com/j8-system-resources/obscure-precedents-design-discussion/
Most skills are active skills.  Passive stacking skills always require some sort of caveat.  Half-Rank skills is one example of that.

"AFAIU any skills adding to initiative are capped by the  perception + intuition of the character. "
- Nope!  I don't even have a guess where this thought came from lol. 

"which I think looks like guile + skill + PBAB."
- Nope, same problem as the Init discussion  
A typical use of PBAB would be as a replacement accuracy skill.  The concept being, I'm about to have 20 different psionic abilities, but rather than have inconsistent accuracy with each one, I'm going to instead devote 1 skill as my accuracy with all of my psionic abilities.  PBAB + Guile regardless of the ranks in the individual psionic abilities.
Without something like this, every psionic ability will work off of its own "skill+G" independently
What you described (G + base skill + bonus skill) is a passive stacking bonus.  These do always need additional caveats.  A hard attribute cap.  Half-Rank payoff.  Stance rules.  Physical components.  maybe other stuff too but those are the main ways we've seen it.

Please follow up as needed to make sense of this if still confused.  I distinctly recall your rolls on your elemental-orc changing every week because the concept never seemed to get locked down.  We can get as verbose as needed to clarify that, especially if its in writing so you can reference it 😉

Posted by: @jaquin

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Posted by: @danargo

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Posted by: @jaquin

↑

AndInit gives +Init at half-ranks rounded down

RE: init - this is the operative phrase yeah?

Operative phrase?  No.  It's one of the established basic ways to create passive stacking bonuses.  See the first section "some system basics" at this link if the remainder of this post doesn't clarify it on its own:
https://j8gaming.com/j8-system-resources/obscure-precedents-design-discussion/
Most skills are active skills.  Passive stacking skills always require some sort of caveat.  Half-Rank skills is one example of that.

 

"AFAIU any skills adding to initiative are capped by the  perception + intuition of the character. "
- Nope!  I don't even have a guess where this thought came from lol. 

 

"which I think looks like guile + skill + PBAB."
- Nope, same problem as the Init discussion  
A typical use of PBAB would be as a replacement accuracy skill.  The concept being, I'm about to have 20 different psionic abilities, but rather than have inconsistent accuracy with each one, I'm going to instead devote 1 skill as my accuracy with all of my psionic abilities.  PBAB + Guile regardless of the ranks in the individual psionic abilities.
Without something like this, every psionic ability will work off of its own "skill+G" independently
What you described (G + base skill + bonus skill) is a passive stacking bonus.  These do always need additional caveats.  A hard attribute cap.  Half-Rank payoff.  Stance rules.  Physical components.  maybe other stuff too but those are the main ways we've seen it.

 

Please follow up as needed to make sense of this if still confused.  I distinctly recall your rolls on your elemental-orc changing every week because the concept never seemed to get locked down.  We can get as verbose as needed to clarify that, especially if its in writing so you can reference it 😉

 

Yeah very much trying to avoid anything like that this run( how does my skills do? What even is a blizzomancy?)

Posted by: @jaquin

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Posted by: @danargo

↑

Posted by: @jaquin

↑

AndInit gives +Init at half-ranks rounded down

RE: init - this is the operative phrase yeah?

Operative phrase?  No.  It's one of the established basic ways to create passive stacking bonuses.  See the first section "some system basics" at this link if the remainder of this post doesn't clarify it on its own:
https://j8gaming.com/j8-system-resources/obscure-precedents-design-discussion/
Most skills are active skills.  Passive stacking skills always require some sort of caveat.  Half-Rank skills is one example of that.

 

"AFAIU any skills adding to initiative are capped by the  perception + intuition of the character. "
- Nope!  I don't even have a guess where this thought came from lol. 

 

"which I think looks like guile + skill + PBAB."
- Nope, same problem as the Init discussion  
A typical use of PBAB would be as a replacement accuracy skill.  The concept being, I'm about to have 20 different psionic abilities, but rather than have inconsistent accuracy with each one, I'm going to instead devote 1 skill as my accuracy with all of my psionic abilities.  PBAB + Guile regardless of the ranks in the individual psionic abilities.
Without something like this, every psionic ability will work off of its own "skill+G" independently
What you described (G + base skill + bonus skill) is a passive stacking bonus.  These do always need additional caveats.  A hard attribute cap.  Half-Rank payoff.  Stance rules.  Physical components.  maybe other stuff too but those are the main ways we've seen it.

 

Please follow up as needed to make sense of this if still confused.  I distinctly recall your rolls on your elemental-orc changing every week because the concept never seemed to get locked down.  We can get as verbose as needed to clarify that, especially if its in writing so you can reference it 😉

 

I'm going to defer to asking dumb questions to make sure I'm not missing how core mechanics function because holy wtf me. 

With regards to initiative, I did a ctrl+f with "initiative" and didnt come up with anything on the supplied link( https://j8gaming.com/j8-system-resources/obscure-precedents-design-discussion/) , I even double checked for pagination.  Ill try to reread more and make this the last point I address before sending my response.

To the point of your clarification, holy crap I've been adding init on a 1:1 basis this whole system, I am very sorry for such a fundamental oversight.

Know Thyself

"- like charm/domination was the trigger based on the phrase "would make them do things that might offend their sensibilities. "

Yes that is exactly the kind of situation I was trying to cover but also saw resistance for defining character traits such as say the character is a generally  motivated hopeful and  person so effects that work by demoralizing the character ala https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1757 Wave of Despair.   Would be included. To be fair this  characteristic has to be built in at rank 1.

posthumous notation
Whereas after writing all this down I had the urge to delete it all I wanted to leave it as discourse for future  generations of players. And Ill go even further to offer that I think it'd be best handled as a sub skill gated by the Know theyself parent skill requiring a new skill for each handled aspect though ample scrutiny.

For example above the character would need a rank 1 in Know Thyself then  a rank in Know Thyself - Motivated or  a rank in Know Thyself - Hopeful if they wanted to be able to fight against an effect that would make them act against these charactaristics. 

So 1 rank in know thyself would afford a reroll against resisting   charm/domination attempts equal to ranks per day. 
If the character wanted to reroll against a demoralizing effect, they wouldnt be able to use their know thyself, they would need a sub specd skill like Know Thyself - Hopeful to do so. 

I think this is a good stopping point for these considerations.

So using rifts psionics as a conversational starting point, which I believe you mentioned irl  as the case, I was seeing this character operating out of the Sensitive bucket of powers. I am looking at the description of psionic powers which starts in the ultimate version of the handbook on page 164.

Skills Posted here for Ease
Astral Projection (8)
Clairvoyance (4)
Commune with Spirits (6)
Empathy (4)
Intuitive Combat (10)
Machine Ghost (12)
Mask I.S.P. & Psionics (7)
Mask P.P.E. (4)
Meditation (0)
Mind Block (4)
Object Read (6)
Presence Sense (4)
Read Dimensional Portal (6)
Remote Viewing (10)
See Aura (6)
See the Invisible (4)
Sense Dimensional Anomaly (4)
Sense Evil (2)
Sense Magic (3)
Sense Time (2)
Sixth Sense (2)
Speed Reading (2)
Telepathy (4)
Total Recall (2)

With the goal of building towards the ability to domineer other sentient consciousnesses which might look like drawing on the Super Psionic Powers  such as:

- Hypnotic Suggestion (6)

- Mentally Possess Others (30)

- Mind Block Auto-Defense (special)

- Mind Bolt (varies)

- Mind Bond ( 1 0)

- Mind Wipe (special)

I just grabbed the biggest contiguous thematic grouping for purposes of reproducing in this post. Suffice to say that the characters psionic focus will be on how they impact other minds.

I'm going to defer to asking dumb questions to make sure I'm not missing how core mechanics function because holy wtf me. 
 - pls do

With regards to initiative, I did a ctrl+f with "initiative" and didnt come up with anything on the supplied link(  https://j8gaming.com/j8-system-resources/obscure-precedents-design-discussion/)  
- Nothing in that link directly addresses initiative, so Ctrl-F is not going to help you.  It is talking about all skills, and how all skills work and interact.  It is only the first post "some system basics" that is relevant.

To the point of your clarification, holy crap I've been adding init on a 1:1 basis this whole system, I am very sorry for such a fundamental oversight.
 - i cant recall you even having a high init character so i doubt it became relevant.  The "stacking with attribute cap" is just as good for small bumps.

yeah most of your Rifts psionics dump i got a pretty good handle on and should be relatively easy to translate

I'm interested in a slightly modified familiar based around psicrystals from dnd. I choose an aspect of my personality to branch off and invest into a crystal. Same reqs around costs and timing. 

I omitted the +2 to whatever skill column here as I wasn't sure if that was in scope for campagin. 

Again, Added this here as a way to talk around certain things, please be forward if I am in the weeds.

I think the levelling can readily translate to the effects described but perhaps likely not the knowledge score  of the familiar.  You LMK when or where it doesnt jive in what way in terms of flavor or mechanics.

I thought the skills up to level 5  were on par / sub par for the investment of xp. I don't want a broken new thing, I want a psionically flavored familiar and how that comes into play I offer  these as a starting point unless there's a more appropriate thread to point myself at. 

Description of abilities table. 

so...  if i'm following this correctly...  you want a pet rock imbued with psionics?  on the surface that's fine; the amount of copypasta makes me unclear if i'm missing something.

far as i can tell, pet rock has emote-according-to-imbued-emotion, and eventually can walk around and telepathy to people?

@jaquin Nah dog, straight up pet rock. I copy pasted as context since I offer so little of my own but in retrospect fell into the same problem. Yes to all questions re pet rock here.

In the community of Zarael, Valorian stuck out amongst his peers. His psionic abilities were noteworthy as though many share the inclination to manifest various types of gifts as they age few demonstrate the aptitude for what is culturally referred to as "other-knowing".

Whereas psionics are expected to manifest in Zarael those with a gift for telepathy are even more common but rarely encouraged. Mostly due to a social predilection to nudge younglings away from that discipline given the natural tendencies and developmental issues it creates in unguided youths. However, as with each of the psionic vocations for the Zarael those predilections are put aside when a child demonstrates such a clear proficiency for this aspect of the art.

When one has been identified as gifted in that discipline, culturally it's seen as an obligation to further the bounds of what's possible through research or exposition regardless of it's nature. Even so, a community recognizes and takes quite seriously the need to come together to guide a youth with prowess lest their proficiency within telepathy create a individual who regards others who cannot resist their will as merely pieces in a game to be utilized  when they obey or worse,  replaced when they don't.

Dear God. Please correct or incorporate any racial cannon I introduced.

MOAR SKILLZZZZ

Knowledge Psionics: ala knowledge arcana but for this.

Psionic Familiar: 2 ( as discussed in previous posts of this thread, its my pet rock+)

Stance Hear Thoughts: affords choosing listening to one person per rank, 10ft/rank as a radius from the skill user as a passive ability. 

Open to your input if you think its over/under powered:

1. First round detect the presence or absence of thought within the radius.

2. Additional rounds can  detect specific thoughts.( EX.damn im hungry, look at dat ass, Ill bet I could get that )

3. Further rounds can identify who's thinking which thoughts which may look like discerning that the three thoughts above (damn im hungry, look at dat ass, Ill bet I could get that ) might be one lizard folk considering one humanoid as prey or several other peoples thoughts.

Without adding more to confuse the matter I see this as a fertile ground for exploration of psi within j8.