Either way, tax or flag, we are seen as beholden to someone. We would have to buy/fight/trade our way out of that flag or tax for independence down the line. 

With both Varangia and Czosok being close enough to cause us trouble, logistically speaking, if they do come for us we either die fighting, run away, or agree to their demands for now. This however is being based off a timeline we have no idea about, and would be guessing when they would come. siona might be able to provide us information on how long she thinks we have till a big enough threat comes. 

Posted by: @umberto

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I do think that we need to be careful about our wording going forward. While we do eventually want to be a true settlement, right now we are just setting up an outpost. We should be presenting ourselves as a business. Businesses can set up and move if need be. A business is not a threat to existing settlements and cities.  Unfortunately at some point someone is going to come and try to collect taxes. Businesses will always pay taxes to someone. We will someday be collecting those taxes. What I believe we should be planning when someone larger comes along is agree to paying the tax, get the benefit of protection, but maintain that this is unclaimed land. We need to recognize our limitations due to size and ability to defend the space is not excellent right now.

We should also be striving to show a unified front when we are talking to outsiders. If you would like to dissent to a point of view, please ask to speak in private about the issue. This will help us to get this place up and running. We are going to need things and we will not be able to set up anything here without first collecting the things needed. Sometimes this will mean giving a war party a free place to stay to build a strong contact, sometimes this will mean making a trader pay extra to store their supplies in our lock room, Sometimes it will be telling needy people they cannot stay for free. We need to be open to all opinions from each member, even if it seems distasteful.

In this same vein, I think we should start branding ourselves and naming this place. I think Crocodile Bay is a good good settlement name. We could then have the Crocodile Bay trading post, Crocodile Bay Inn, Crocodile Bay Tavern, etc.

I also believe we should start thinking of a group name. I think we could stay in the same vein and be the Crocodile Corp. 

Once this corpse starts rotting this place is going to be awful for a while, we should head out and get resources to build up an Inn and trading post, grab a few craftsmen and maybe partner with some outlaws to guard the place. 

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

 

Okay. I agree careful and prudence is going to be our friend.

However I disagree we should present ourselves  as a business. I do not beleive that would prevent anyone from trying to claim this area. It would encourage the area as a place to be claimed.

I am very opposed to paying taxes. That isnt to say im opposed to paying anything. Rather then paying any taxes to a city, I would rather try to bribe and enrich individuals who could keep these states at bay.

Not that we have this money but id rather pay 1k gold to an influential official who can lobby our interest then 100 gold in taxes. Taxes no matter how you frame it will equate to others and the collector our submission and recognition of their sovereignty.

While I recognize this may end uo being what happens, that will make it harder longer. We wont gain independence without a war.

I think  it would be better in the long run for our struggle to be in the beginning. If they begin to take it by force we will have to wage a guerilla war. Make it cost more in money and life to try to maintain their presence here. This will not be accomplished alone, we will need allies, benefactors, and resources.

I think initially while the corpse rot we need to prioritize getting a good understanding of the surrounding area. There are areas we dont know that would be considered  under our influence if we were a settlement.

Branding im fine with. Name im fine with. What people call it doesnt necessarily  matter to me.

A unified front i agree is very important. We must present, even if as a facade, a unified group with unified goals, who are competent  and organized. Contradicting party members,  yelling at each other, and arguing in front of outsiders will only harm us.

I think a good solution to this is to decide who will talk to people. This doesnt have to be a permanent  decision. We can even switch spokespersons if it is desired. 

As a suggestion  I think a good rule of thumb is if one of us is talking to someone when others arrive we continue to let them lead the conversation. That isnt to say the rest of us cant contribute,  but we shouldn't contradict whoever is the designated speaker. If we take issue with what is said I dont think there is anything  wrong with requesting  a side bar. Whoever is speaker should respect this.

I do think we should try to keep interruptions to a minimum  but would rather that then the alternative.

Overall i dont think any of us believe this will be easy  or safe. But with this risk we can become a true power in the region. But its going to take all of us working together, using every resource we have , every contact, making concessions  where we can, and holding firm as a group where we cant.

I believe us paying taxes is a firm no. But doesnt mean we wont be paying nothing. This will be an expensive endeavor that will require us to bribe,  threaten, coerce, blackmail, negotiate, fight, debate, and anything else it takes to get what we need.

We need to establish our groups opinions then, because as of now we've barely agreed upon much so dissenting opinions will happen if people in our group speak for the group to others about stuff that hasn't been agreed to. This needs to be done first. And I don't think we need a group spokesperson assigned, especially if we all agree as to our groups goals/outlooks/vison/rules/etc. Maybe for formal meetings a spokepers9n would be preferable, but not for every situation.

I agree to most all other points by Arthure.

Its impossible for us to agree on everything ahead of time. There is going to be things we didnt think of or know was something to consider.

Regardless I didn't say dissent was not allowed. Just we can't  contradict in front of outsiders. There is a big difference 

I would say that disagreements are encouraged even, just make sure that we do it away from whoever we are actively talking with. If you want to be the primary speaker to a certain person, just speak up!

Our unifying goal is to prove that a settlement here can work. How that happens is different for all of us.

I'm down for the struggle if our plan is just to fight our way through. We don't have a lot of super proficient fighters so be aware that we will all need to contribute as well as we can. 

Welcome to Crocodile Bay! We are the Crocodile Corp 🙂

No.

Not Crocodile Corp.

Not a business. 

If we do agree to this route of bribery and negotiation and whatnot, Jelly can I increase my Underbelly knowledge skill to try and recall all those tidbits I would've heard over the years in my dealings in the underbelly: names, locations, vices of major players? Or is that too specific, would i also need an Underbelly varangia knowledge skill?

you can increase either skill, but be aware something as specific as "vices of major players" is like a Rank10 threshold

Dope!

Ooc Im willing to put lots of points into skills for this avenue if we want. Its my characters backstory in a way already so I had been thinking about it for a while. 

"If we want to go this route, I can take some time to meditate and recall as much as I can about Varangias underbelly."

Like the Marine Corps, not like a corporation 🙂

Posted by: @umberto

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Like the Marine Corps, not like a corporation 🙂

What the hell is a marine corps? Humans are weird.

But I see more like a military or mercenary  company/ group. Interesting  I think im fine for now, though I find that designation... hmmm difficult to back up